Former NSA Officer Says That 9/11
Whistleblower Was Murdered in a Black Ops Hit
Former CIA drug pilot and 9/11 investigator Philip
Marshall and his two children were killed “in a black ops hit”, says Kevin
Barret, founding member of The Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance.
Barret said that Wayne Madsen, a former National Security
Agency officer who has conducted a week-long on-site investigation into the
incident, has told him with “100 percent” certainty that Marshall was
murdered in an assassination “connected to the national security community.”
“Of course, here in the U.S., which national security
community we’re talking about could be both Israel and the U.S. because
essentially the U.S. community has been taken over by the Israeli community
since 9/11,” Barret said in a phone interview with the U.S. Desk on
“It seems that Philip Marshall had gotten his hands on
some kind of explosive information as he [Madsen] put it. And, he was
planning to publish this in his next book,” Barret added.
He said that after Philip Marshall and his children were
murdered, his house was “ransacked repeatedly and illegally by professional
cleanup crews” and in coordination with the local police which subsequently
stated that the incident was a murder-suicide.
“It’s clear that they [local police] are reading from a
script that’s been forced on them by higher authority in the so-called
national security community which, as I said, is mixed in with organized
crime and the Israeli power centers,” said Barret.
The Kevin Barrett Show
February 19, 2013.
Wayne Madsen on The Kevin Barrett Show
BARRETT: Welcome to the Kevin Barrett Show. I’m Kevin Barrett, back from a
long vacation. I just spent two weeks in Iran over at the film festival, The
Hollywoodism Conference, as part of the as part of the Fajr Film Festival in
Tehran. And wow, that was pretty exciting, and one of the pieces of news
that arrived from the US of A while I was in Tehran was the killing of
Phillip Marshall and his two children in California. Phillip Marshall is a
retired United Airlines pilot, he’s written a couple of books about 9/11,
most recently “The Big Bamboozle”, he was a former associate of the CIA/DEA
informant Barry Seal, the notorious CIA cocaine smuggler, and if you think
Phillip Marshall killed himself and his two children as the police are
trying to claim; well, I don’t know…you need to go back to school.
Today I’m going to be talking about this tragic case of an apparent 9/11
whistleblower being silenced with one of my favorite sources of leaks from
inside the US Intel community, the thinking man’s Seymour Hersh, and that is
Wayne Madsen. Wayne Madsen is formerly with the National Security Agency, he
has since become an independent patriot journalist doing consistently
excellent work, and well, It’s an honor to welcome Wayne Madsen back to the
show. How are you Wayne?
MADSEN: Fine, good to be with you.
BARRETT: Yeah, well I do follow your work, and you’ve made a number of very
interesting breakthroughs, and your piece on Phillip Marshall is very
important. I mean, those of us in the 9/11 Truth community should not just
take it lying down when somebody is murdered along with their children to
keep this covered up. I think that’s more or less what happened to Paul
Wellstone as well. These people have no shame; I mean killing the children
all with their targets, it’s absolutely disgusting. Why don’t you give the
listeners sort of a rundown on Phillip Marshall?
MADSEN: Well Phillip Marshall, I have to admit I wasn’t all that familiar
with his work, but when I read his biography along with the…some really
scurrilous news reports that, ‘yknow, he was this, ‘yknow, this repressed
killer who snapped, and put a gun on the head of his 17 year old son and his
14 year old daughter, and his little pet shih tzu, Suki, y’know, you start
to wonder what in the world is going on here. Now, of course, being an
independent journalist, I’m not the New York Times, or the Washington Post,
or even the San Francisco Chronicle, where I can, y’know, dispatch people to
investigate all these mysterious murders, so I have to pick and choose the
ones which I can look in, but this one was so far up on the radar screen, I
flew out to California. Phil Marshall lived in a very small, gated
sub-development outside of the town of Murphys, which is in the foothills of
the Sierra Nevada Mountain range and he lived in a sub-division called
Forest Meadows — mostly retirees from San Francisco Bay Area, Los Angeles.
Phillip Marshall himself moved there about 10 years ago from Santa Barbara.
As you mentioned he’s a retired United Airlines pilot. He moved up to
Murphys to have more seclusion because he planned on writing some books. Now
his first book was a novel, but based on real life occurences, called Lake
Front. Lake Front being the New Orleans Downtown Airport which saw a lot of
traffic in the early to mid 80s associated with…later with the Iran-Contra
scandal, but a lot of CIA activity involved involved with the Drug
Enforcement Administration with one Barry Seal…
BARRETT: Wayne I’m sorry to interrupt you but you’re starting to break up a
little bit, are you on a cell phone?
MADSEN: Oh, yes, can you hear me now?
BARRETT: Hello, Wayne?
MADSEN: Yes, hello?
BARRETT. Hmm. That’s very odd.
BARRETT: We seem to have got some interference pushing Wayne Madsen offline…
MADSEN: Hello? Hello?
BARRETT: … and hopefully we will get him back on the air in short order.
That’s pretty interesting, two shows in a row where I’ve had this kind of
mysterious interference. Hmmm.
BARRETT: At least I must be doing something right. Are you there Wayne?
MADSEN: Yes, hello. Can you hear me?
BARRETT: Yeah, yeah, something…we just had your…yeah…your voice started
MADSEN: Well, listen…yeah…this is something that actually plagued me when I
was in California looking into the Phil Marshall case. I’m not sure how much
you heard, but so Marshall’s first… He moved to Calaveras County from Santa
Barbara about ten years ago for more seclusion because he planned on writing
books, and the first book was called Lake Front, about Lake Front Airport in
downtown New Orleans, where he and Barry Seal worked together in the early
80s. I would point out there’s also a photograph that has shown up showing
Phil Marshall in 1984 at the Mena airfield in Arkansas. Now this is the
famous, or infamous, airport that was the scene of a lot of cocaine
smuggling from Latin America in return for US weapons being shipped to the
Contras in Nicaragua and the various drug cartels. And I spoke to one of
Phil Marshall’s long time friends who said that Phil Marshall went to work
for Eastern Airlines first after he was a DEA and CIA pilot, ferrying among
others Barry Seal around through New Orleans and Mena airfield. But Phil
Marshall went to work for Eastern Airlines, but later he was looking at the
television in, I guess, 1986, when a big story broke and we saw a uniformed
Marine Corp. Lt. Colonel take an oath before a Joint Sub-Committee of the
Senate and House, and he pointed the guy out and said “Hey, I met him down
at Lake Front Airport.” And that was, of course, Lt. Colonel Oliver North
who turned out to be, y’know, one of the key players in the Iran-Contra
Marshall had some interesting connections early on, and it looks like
towards the end he was becoming someone more interested in telling the truth
than having anything to do with his former acquaintances and associates,
which makes the Sheriff…the Calveras County Sheriff’s contention that he
shot his two children, his dog and then himself even that much more
BARRETT: Right, and he was obviously mixed up with some pretty high level
organized criminals in his days as an associate of Barry Seal. Maybe the
listeners may not remember that Barry Seal was gunned down in, I think it
was Baton Rouge, or New Orleans, one of the two…
MADSEN: Baton Rogue, 19…February 19th in 1986.
BARRETT: Right. And Barry Seal had been a CIA drug pilot. This was part of
the Cocaine-for-the-Contras thing that Olly North and probably George H.W.
Bush, was smuggling cocaine with the CIA to support the Contra insurgency in
Nicaragua. And then Barry Seal got gunned down in Baton Rogue after he had
turned just state’s evidence against, guess who, his own lawyer, Richard
Ben-Veniste, who later served on the 9/11 Commission. Very interesting
MADSEN: Yeah, and the interesting thing is too is that Barry Seal was a
CIA/DEA informant turned whistleblower. He was gunned down in Baton Rogue.
The federal judge, Polozola, who was actually a crony of the Bush family,
sort of put him in a limbo category. Seal was offered Witness Protection
Program but that would have meant he would have had very little contact with
his family, he wanted something different. The federal judge who was linked
to the Mafia, and the Marcello crime family in New Orleans, and we know
about that link to previous incidents in New Orleans involving…
BARRETT: Wasn’t the Marcello crime family, weren’t they actually tied into
the Martin Luther King assassination, as I recall….
MADSEN: Also John F. Kennedy.
MADSEN: Also that of John F. Kennedy.
BARRETT: So they’ve worked with the CIA and other government bad guys in
these kinds of assassinations.
MADSEN: That’s right. So we have a have a dirty judge who basically left
Seal out to dry. He was gunned down, I think, he was shot multiple times in
his car in the parking lot of a Salvation Army in Baton Rogue. They looked
in the trunk in his car, they found the private phone number of George H.W.
Bush, in addition to Seal’s Honduran passport, which was issued, of course,
in another name. Seal was very connected to these operations. Marshall knew
him well enough because Marshall basically flew Seal around in a CIA Lear
jet after, of course, Seal had his license revoked, his pilot license
revoked after his arrest. Seal himself had been a former pilot for TWA, and
I believe he was the youngest pilot in the airline’s history. Marshall
himself was a pretty young pilot for Eastern, but when Frank Lorenzo took
over Eastern and went after the pilot’s union and the other unions Marshall
said “I’m not going to be a scab, I’m not crossing pickets lines”, so he
left Eastern because of the anti-union…the union busting policies of Lorenzo
and went to work for United.
BARRETT: Hmm. Wow. What an interesting history.So somebody who’s been this
involved with, well, CIA, DEA, the drug smuggling, the dark side or
overworld of the government, maybe is not supposed to be doing 9/11 truth
books. Is that the message that was sent by this killing?
MADSEN: Well, I’m not certain. I’ve spoke to many of Marshall’s neighbors,
friends and none of them, of course, believe the official story that he did
this. The person they described to me was a very mellow guy, with a sense of
humor, who cared all the world about his kids, who participated in his son’s
little league games and with the football, and took the daughter on outings
with her high school friends, very involved with the community, very
involved with her school, so of course when this tragedy occured there’s a
memorial at the high school in San Andreas, California, but none of
Marshall’s family who flew out there were allowed to attend. They came in
from Georgia, and from North Carolina, and from his native Louisiana, and
because basically the Sheriff put the word out that he did it; y’know, a
conclusive report, even though, y’know, the crime scene had not been
thoroughly investigated. And I also discovered that the Calaveras County
Sheriff, who I might add I understand is sort of in line with the Tea Party
Republicans, sent in professional cleaners to clean the crime scene before
the investigation was actually complete. On two occassions…
MADSEN. …On two occasions that the cleaners were there, there were SUVs
spotted in the driveway, people combing the house inside and outside. One
night was with five or six guys with flashlights looking around the grounds
behind the house, they were in the house. One vehicle with State of
California tags, even though the Sheriff said it was a county matter and it
had no state involvement in the investigation. And there was another SUV,
license undetermined, with an array of communication antennas bristling from
the roof of the vehicle, so there was a lot of attention after the yellow
tape was removed and it was no declared as no longer as a crime scene. There
was also an attempted break-in. I was there on the 13th of February, and
looked around the house, spoke to a bunch of the people who lived in the
neighborhood, and that evening the home was broken in to, somebody got
through a sliding door in the back of the house and was after something.
Also members of his estranged family showed up the next day and rifled
through various drawers and boxes in the garage looking for something. It
seems like Phillip Marshall had something somebody wanted, and something
that somebody was willing to kill for, and he told a friend of his, after
his last book he wrote that came out, I believe in November, and he was
actually on a interview on AM Coast-to-Coast with Susan Lindauer, who many
people may be familiar with also…
BARRETT: Yeah, she’s been on my show many times.
MADSEN: Yeah, so he was on Coast-to-Coast with Susan Lindauer, and y’know,
his book The Big Bamboozle, about how, y’know, the Bush family, Cheney, the
Saudi Government, they were all complicit in 9/11; he also added the
Neo-Cons in that.
BARRETT: Let’s not forget the Neo-Cons…
MADSEN: Yeah, right. And more importantly, he told a friend of his that he
was working on a fourth book, and he said “you’re really going to be shocked
to see what I have in this fourth book.” Now what that book was nobody seems
to know what the subject was, nobody seems to know, but… Being a New Orleans
native, and I have to add too that he was such a fan of the New Orleans
Saints that when the team suspended the coach for some, I guess, rule
infractions with the NFL, he actually paid for planes with banners to fly
over the stadiums, arenas…stadiums where the Saints were playing saying,
y’know, “Free the Coach.” The fact is, this murder took place, these
shootings took place two days before the Super-Bowl was going to be at the
Super-Dome in New Orleans, and Phil Marshall told all his friends that he
was anxiously awaiting the Super Bowl, even though the Saints weren’t in it,
it was in the Saint’s, ‘yknow, home stadium, and certainly they, ‘yknow,
they said that…not only did he never show any signs of that depression, but
they said he certainly wouldn’t have done anything like that two days before
the Super Bowl was going to be held in New Orleans.
BARRETT: Wow. So in terms of speculation about what information he might
have had that would be worth killing him for, do you have information on
MADSEN: Well, looking at the people he knew early on; Barry Seal, now Barry
Seal was a member of the Group of 40, a shadowy CIA group that included
people like Ted Shackley, Porter Goss, Felix Rodriguez – as a matter of fact
there was a photograph of many of these individuals taken in February 1963
in Mexico City. Several months later, of course, Lee Harvey Oswald shows up
in Mexico City, not as I feel, or many other people feel, was to make
contact with the Cubans and Soviets to kill President Kennedy, but to find
out what the Group of 40 was doing, because as we later found Lee Harvey
Oswald was an informant for both the Central Intelligence Agency and the
BARRETT: That’s right. I had Judith Baker on the show in November. Judith
Baker was Lee Harvey Oswald’s girlfriend, and she said that Oswald, like
her, was working for US intelligence, he was informing for the FBI, and he
was actually spying on the people that were hatching the plot against JFK.
MADSEN: Right. So considering that New Orleans was so key in the Kennedy
assassination, and y’know, we know that Jim Garrison was on the right track
and he was derailed, both from without and from within his own group, and
the Marcello connection, and the Guy Bannister connection, all the other
connections; Fair Play for Cuba, the front group that Oswald associated
himself with. All headquartered in New Orleans. Clay Shaw, one of the
unindicted, y’know, Garrison went after him but he got off that. All
centered in New Orleans, knowing that later, of course, Barry Seal, who was
a member of that Group of 40 as an associate of Marshall, Marshall’s flying
him around. My gut feeling, and I have no way to know this for certain; this
is 2013, this is the 50th anniversary of the killing of President Kennedy.
If I were a veracious researcher as Marshall was, and he moved up to this
area to, y’know, for more seclusion, so he would have time to write books…I
mean, when you look out his back window you see, y’know, the Sierra Nevada
range, and, y’know, it’s quite idyllic for an author, I, y’know, got really
jealous of the people who lived up there, because, y’know, there’s a couple
of other authors that live in the neighborhood, but y’know, I just wonder if
somebody handed him something – Somebody he met in the past who showed up
and said, “hey, you’re an author, how about this information?”, and maybe he
was working on something either directly related to the JFK assassination,
or peripherally involved, something, maybe another take on Iran-Contra,
because some of the same players were involved in that; notably George H.W.
Bush. So, it’s hard to say, but it had to be something so important that
they were willing to kill Marshall and his two children and the dog for. The
dog, of course, I believe, was shot because it was a shih tzu, and they’re
known for being very yappy when somebody who they don’t know comes onto the
premises, but I believe the murder of Marshall and his family had something
to do with his next book.
BARRETT: Wow, yeah, I would think so too, although the Kennedy assassination
did happen fifty years ago, and Iran-Contra was, what, thirty some years or
so ago, and 9/11 was just a little over a decade ago, and since he’s worked
on that issue, and it’s, y’know, the people who did 9/11 are all still in
power. I think are lot of the JFK criminals have probably retired, or passed
to their eternal punishment, but…so I wouldn’t wonder if it wasn’t something
MADSEN: Possibly, or he was actually interlinking all three events from
1963, through the 80s and Iran-Contra to the 9/11 attacks, because we see
some of the same players, of course, same agencies involved, but that’s just
a guess on my part. Or he was working on something totally unrelated that,
again, was maybe something to do with the Columbian drug cartels, and his
time with DEA. Maybe he was looking into that. Certainly there would have
been a reason for professional assassins to hit him and his family if that’s
the angle he was pursuing. But without…the interesting thing is nobody’s
sure what happened to his computer; it’s no longer in his home, it was
ripped from the wall. It may be in the hands of the Calaveras County
Sheriff’s department, or maybe in the hands of his estranged wife’s family,
but nobody’s really certain what happened to the computer and his files, and
it’s one of the leads I’m still trying to pursue, to see if he gave
information, or handed information to anyone for safe-keeping.
BARRETT: Well I would sure hope he would have. I mean, if you’re working on
something really hot as he said he was. I mean, you Wayne, in the business
that you’re in, you know that if you’re in that situation you’re in, you’re
going to make sure that information is spread into at least a few areas
where, if something happens to you, it’s going to be available.
MADSEN: Absolutely, and as I say, the house has been gone through several
times by professional cleaners, and ‘unauthorized cleaners’, quote unquote,
but y’know, of course the Calvera County’s Sheriff… I was told by people in
County government, that they’re really the mountain version of the Keystone
Kops, that not only I mentioned the politics, even though the Sheriff is a
non-partisan position, but they’re really rather incompetent up there.
They’ve been trying to hire fifteen new sheriffs, and, y’know, in a
budget-strapped county, they say “you’re not doing a heck of a lot with the
sheriffs you’ve got” and, y’know, the answer has been “no”, because they’ve
just not able to handle these kinds of investigations. And also, they would
be also prone to any federal agency coming to them with, y’know, a
preordained reason for these deaths, telling them “this is the story you’re
going to put out” and then, y’know, agreeing to that, certainly.
BARRETT: Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Wasn’t, wasn’t Calaveras
County…wasn’t that where Mark Twain had his celebrated jumping frog?
MADSEN: Yes, that’s in Angel’s Camp. That’s in Angel’s Camp, and that’s just
down the highway 4 from Murphys, where Marshall lived, so you take the
mountain road down to Angel’s Camp and you find where Mark Twain wrote about
the jumping frog contest. And Twain lived in that area, and he did a lot of
writing actually there, and he worked for, he actually worked for some
newspapers up there. It’s just a shame that…Y’know I spoke to some
journalists up there, that papers do as best as they can with limited
resources; the Calaveras Enterprise, which is San Andreas… they, y’know,
try to investigate these matters, but they’re really reliant on the
Sheriff’s department for most of their information, because they just don’t
have the resources, and you’ve only got, maybe, two or three full time
reporters trying to cover everything from, y’know, high school football
games to murder, to, y’know, police busting the very many meth labs that
exist in the area.
BARRETT: Hmm. Wow. Sounds like the true setting for a contemporary murder
mystery, which is pretty much what we’ve got here with the killing of
Phillip Marshall, the author of The Big Bamboozle, among other books,
sitting on some very hot information he was going to reveal, and now, who
knows where that all is? Well, we’re going to take a midpoint break here,
and be back in five minutes. I’m Kevin Barrett, this is the Kevin Barrett
Show on “No Lies Radio”, talking with Wayne Madsen, the celebrated
independent journalist who actually flew out and investigated the apparent
murder of whistle-blower Phillip Marshall. We’ll be right back.
BARRETT: Welcome back.This is The Kevin Barrett Show on NoLiesRadio.org. The
website for the show’s truthjihadradio.blogspot.com. And today I’m talking
with Wayne Madsen, he’s a former National Security Agency officer turned
whistleblowing journalist. In fact he’s a conduit for whistle blowers, and a
real journalist, which is why you really should go to his website,
waynemadsenreport.com and sign-up, pay him a pittance for his trouble,
because Wayne actually does things like fly out to California to investigate
the apparent murder of 9/11 whistleblower Phillip Marshall. He doesn’t have
the resources of the Sacramento Bee, or the San Francisco Chronicle, but he
does have that dedication to truth, and we need some, y’know, real
journalism to be happening the way things are going these days.
Well, Wayne, we’re talking about this Phillip Marshall incident, where he
and his two children were killed, in what seems a fairly obvious
assassination. The, well, let’s call them, the less-than-thoroughly
local sheriff’s department, is trying to call it a murder-suicide, but
there’s all sorts of evidence that’s it not, and in one of your earlier
reports, you mentioned that the sheriff says that the houses are so far
apart that nobody would be able to hear gunshots, and when you went out
there you found out that wasn’t exactly the case.
MADSEN: No, as a matter of fact, the houses are very close together, but
horizontally and vertically, because basically, this sub-division, Forest
Meadows, is built on a mountainside, and so you’ve not only got homes close
to one another next door, but also almost on top of one another. You could
be looking down on a neighbor’s home just as easily as looking across at it.
I understand that, y’know, one neighbor told me that ….y’know, look, the
homes are so close together, that one neighbor could hear Phil Marshall
whistling inside his house…
MADSEN: So, that’s not what…that’s not what the Sheriff said. Obviously a
silencer must have been used. Many neighbors thought that was the case. They
believed the Sheriff said “no, there’s no indication of a silenced….”
Marshall had a 9mm Glock. He was found lying on his back, shot in the left
side of his head. One of the things I’m trying to find out is if he was
right handed or left handed, I’m still trying to get that. But he was shot
in the left side of his head, once, he was lying on his back with the gun
underneath. Now, people react differently to gunshots, that could have been
the case, y’know, if we consider it was a suicide, but the odd thing is is
that he joked to his neighbors that even though he had this registered 9mm
Glock he never had…he said “a lot of good it’ll do me, because I don’t have
any ammo for it.” Now one of the things the Sheriff said he found was a box
of 9mm ammunition with Marshall’s wedding ring on top of it. Friends and
neighbors told me that after his separation from his wife, Marshall never
wore his wedding ring, and so, why did the Sheriff leak this? The Sheriff
leaked this to a family member, and of course it was picked up by the media,
so it looked like there was some sort of attempt by the Sheriff to steer the
media in a certain direction, even though, one, neighbors said that, y’know,
he had no ammunition for this gun, but if it’s registered obviously there’s
a record that Marshall owned a 9mm Glock, so if somebody had a similar
weapon they could have shot him with that, made it look…y’know, used his
weapon, put it underneath, make it look like he did it. Interestingly
enough, two reports the Sheriff has not released yet: the toxicology tests
to make sure that Marshall and his kids, and even the dog had not been,
y’know, put under by some sort of, y’know, drug, and also the GSR, the
Gunshot Residue Report, and that would be very critical to determining
whether he shot himself, y’know, they do the paraffin tests and all that;
whether he did it or it was, y’know, another assailant. So two critical
reports. And even the local papers’ having trouble getting that GSR report.
The toxicology, the claim is, it’s being handled by the chemist, y’know, the
people who do that in Sacramento, so that’s delayed because of their
backlogs. So two critical reports are out and the Sheriff still, with that
in mind, has said conclusively that Marshall shot his kids, his dog and then
BARRETT: Conclusively.You wonder how far they can go in falsifying these
reports about crime scenes, y’know, there are at least celebrated cases
where Gary Webb is shot twice in the head and it’s called suicide, or Paul
Wellstone’s plane goes down a week after he gets a threat from Cheney, and
obviously dubious circumstances right before Wellstone is going to sweep
into victory and stop the Iraq war and investigate 9/11, boom, his plane
goes down, and they tell us there was bad weather, and there wasn’t, the
weather was perfectly good, yet the whole news media tells us there was bad
weather. How far can they go in making up these ridiculous stories, that the
houses were so far apart that nobody could hear any gunshots when the houses
were right on top of one another? I mean, obviously shot with a silencer. I
mean, aren’t these people going to get caught?
MADSEN: Yeah, and we should remember that Hunter S. Thompson was supposedly
working a major article on 9/11. He supposedly shot himself too, and there
were reports of maybe more than one type of gunshot there, so yeah, it
happens, but as long as we have an FBI that’s complicit in these crimes,
either through commission or omission, and a runaway Central Intelligence
Agency, which if Obama gets his way, we’re going to get a pathological,
remote control murderer in charge of that place, John Brennan. As long as
this continues and we’re going have a weak Congress, which does not exercise
even the, I would say, even the weak sort of control and oversight exhibited
by Congress in the 70s by, y’know, I mean, give them credit, Frank Church
and Otis Pike in the House, and Bella Abzug in the House, and they did what
they could, but under tremendous counter-pressure, but we don’t even have
anything like that these days to restrain these agencies, so, y’know, when
people say “the CIA may have done it”, or some other black ops group in the
US government, y’know, people say “oh, that’s conspiracy theory” – we’ve had
the Senate already go on record, and the House, in the 1970s talking about
these quote-unquote ‘conspiracy theories’ and documenting them in official
House and Senate reports. So, I mean, this pejorative term that thrown
around by the Neo-Cons… they think that they’re so invulnerable that you
can’t charge them with anything like them being like cult Kabbalists. Even
Wolfowitz jokingly referred to himself and his cronies as “Kabbalists”, but
if you say that you’re being anti-Semitic. So they can use all the
pejorative terms in the world, but, y’know, we’re not allowed to retaliate
or respond to them. It’s a great deal for them.
BARRETT: Yeah, there seems to be a lot of energy put into shaping the
discourse, and y’know, developing these words that can be used to stop
people from thinking like the word “conspiracy theorist”, and that term was
apparently…we’ve traced it to a CIA memo, that was put out to their
journalists assets. Of course, Operation: Mockingbird was the the CIA
program that developed all of these journalist assets, and as I recall Cord
Meyer was the head of that program, and he was named along with LBJ as one
of the two top guys in the JFK assassination by Howard Hunt in his deathbed
confession. So, right, anyway, this CIA memo said that all the CIA assets in
journalism should start using the term “conspiracy theorist” to bash anybody
asking questions about the JFK assassination. At that time, of course, we
were told Oswald was the lone assassin, so anybody who said there was
another shooter was a conspiracy theorist because there must be a
conspiracy…but now they’ve got that term out there to attack anyone who
questions authority with. They use it in even absurd cases like 9/11, which
of course is a conspiracy, there is obviously more than one person involved,
and yet they throw this completely meaningless insult at people to try and
shut them up, and it seems to work; a fair number of otherwise intelligent
MADSEN: Yeah, and they did that of course, the press; one of the local
papers out there, the one in Sonora, the Union Democrat, was really vicious
against Marshall. Not only did they call him, y’know, a cold blooded killer
who snapped, just in a headline, y’know, that he was a 9/11 conspiracy
theorist…This was all in their report. They weren’t the only paper, they
were the worst, and why I say they were the worst was Phil Marshall’s first
wife, who lives in New Orleans now, contacted that paper with a screed
against her husband. She hasn’t seen him since 1998, since they were
divorced. She lives in New Orleans, he moved to the West Coast, but they
said “well, she said things like she was abusive, he was violent, he used
foul language, he had two kids by his second wife, but he wouldn’t have any
kids with me.” As if that’s relevant to anything…
BARRETT: Right…that explains where she’s coming from.
MADSEN: Right, and I checked this person, and y’know, it’s interesting,
she’s been in and out of court and, y’know, her husband…litigation, suing
contractors…and the husband, interestingly enough, sued his employer, which
it turned out to be the Department of Energy, and this individual who the
first wife’s married too is the…is an auditor for the Strategic Petroleum
Reserve, down in Louisiana, that’s run by the Energy Department, but that we
know that reserve is tied in directly to the oil industry, and y’know, when
we talk oil, we’re talking Cheney, we’re talking Bush.
BARRETT: Wow. That’s very interesting. So not only might this person have
had a grudge against her former husband, but she might have reason to be
willing to go along with suggestions that she slam him in the media.
MADSEN: Exactly. Exactly.
BARRETT: Yeah, wow…It’s kind of sad how little integrity there is in some of
MADSEN: Yeah, yeah. Y’know, again, when it points all back to New
Orleans…it’s very interesting. One of things I wanted to mention about Barry
Seal; Barry Seal’s case was handled by this Bush crony, but y’know, he had
1.2 million dollars in assets that there was a big battle over. Y’know, the
IRS want it, because they’ve got this law where if you make your money
because of drug smuggling they can, y’know, they can take it. They can tax
it first of all, then they can seize it. So the judge in that case was a guy
named Martin Feldman, he’s actually still on the federal bench, and not only
is he on the federal bench, he’s a member of the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Court, that top secret court that authorizes, y’know, these
NSA/FBI wiretaps and whatnot, for national security counter terrorism
purposes. But Feldman was also a key judge in the litigation over BP in the
Deep Water Horizon disaster, and it was later found out that he did not
recuse himself from these cases even though he was a stockholder in
Transocean, the company that owned the platform the Deep Water Horizon, and
also he’s a stockholder in BP itself. So we’ve got this dirty judge involved
with the post-mortem of Barry Seal’s matters, and the other Bush crony
involved with putting Barry Seal in jeopardy because he was such a threat to
Vice President Bush.
BARRETT: Wow. These mobbed up judges are amazing, aren’t they? Y’know, the
whole giving Larry Silverstein double indemnity on his World Trade Center
losses, even though he confessed to demolishing Building 7. We’ve got Bush’s
cousin, Judge Walker, refusing to recuse himself from a case, the April
Gallops case, charging Bush with the greatest crime of the century.
MADSEN: Right. Right. And of course, Karl Rove’s own buddy, Mark Fuller,
Little District of Alabama judge who put Karl Rove’s number one political
enemy Don Siegelman in prison, so, yeah, it goes on and on, these judges are
fiends. And y’know, lifetime appointments…we really need to revisit that.
The only thing I’m in favor of giving a judge anything a lifetime is a
BARRET: Well, some of them obviously deserve it.
BARRET: Yeah…so, how long were you out there in California, looking into the
Phillip Marshall case?
MADSEN: I was out there…I was out there for little over a week. 8 days. And
yeah, the environment is…I have to…y’know, listeners put them in the frame
of mind; you’ve got a tragedy in a small town, of course; y’know, everybody
talks in a small town. Most information goes by the rumour net. So when you
go in there, you’ve really got to let people know that you’re not…that
you’re trustworthy, because they’ve got the local media that for one reason
or another can’t…y’know, that can’t extensively look into these things.
You’ve got a sheriff’s department who came up with this quick conclusion,
and you’ve got friends of Phil Marshall who don’t believe it, so… With
friends and neighbors and whatnot I had to really, ‘yknow, convince them
that I was really, y’know, out to find the truth, and I wasn’t out to
disparage Marshall or the family, or have some other agenda, so that takes a
little bit of time to do that, but I feel that after a few days out there
people started to open up more and tell me some personal dealings that they
had with Marshall which, y’know, I passed on in the articles I talked about
already, so I came away… I went there skeptical about the official story, I
came away believing absolutely 100% that he did not do this.
BARRET: And that’s what all the neighbors you talked to said, right, I mean,
it was basically 100% of them didn’t believe the official story?
MADSEN: That’s correct. Now the problem is with some of the friends of the
Marshall children, from high school, y’know, the families, they knew ‘em
through the kids, and the word went out to the kids that this is a perfect
example why somebody who’s diagnosed as mentally ill should not have access
to a gun, so, I…with some of the things I saw out there, I saw some sort of
an attempt to turn this into mini-Newtown, Sandy Hook Elementary School
shooting scenario – it was quite different than that. But, y’know, there was
an attempt to make Marshall, unfortunately, look like this guy Adam Lanza,
and I think that just some people with an agenda pushed that agenda out
BARRET: Right, and what was the Sheriff’s evidence, when the Sheriff
immediately said “it’s a slam-dunk case, this is a murder-suicide”, I mean,
after everything you’ve said it sounds like there’s no evidence whatsoever
to support that?
BARRETT: What’s he pointing at?
MADSEN: Well, the position of the body for one thing. Y’know, the children
were found on a sectional couch, but on different sections of the couch, and
the issue came up is “if he shot one of the kids, y’know, and the other kid
was on the other couch, there would have been some time maybe to respond to
it, to escape or do something.” Well, that certainly wasn’t the case. His
front door was open, so when a neighbor went over…some kids showed up on
Saturday, because, y’know… the two kids, Alex, 17 and Macaila, 14, were in
constant Twitter, Facebook and all this stuff that kids do these days with
their iPhones and whatnot…they were in constant communications. So when they
didn’t show up for high school on Friday, and they didn’t hear anything,
they showed up at the house, four of them showed up to the house on
Saturday. They saw through the window at the front door that there was
somebody laying there, and the neighbor came over and found that the door
was open, went in, and found Phillip Marshall at the end of this long
corridor, clearly shot, and clearly dead. When the Sheriff came, of course,
all those people were shooed off, and the yellow tape went up, and this was
Saturday. But interestingly enough, the coroner out there is saying that the
time of death of these individuals was the time that the bodies were
discovered, even though there is evidence they were shot Thursday the night
of January 31st and Friday morning, which was February 1st. The coroner said
time of death was when they were discovered Satuday, late, I think, late
Saturday morning. So we have a huge discrepancy there as well. Phil
Marshall, I’m told, never kept his door open, even though many people do
that, he had reason not to, but the neighbor walked right through; the door
was open. There was a side door that was never used, neighbors told me,
never used, always closed; it was also found ajar when the bodies were
discovered. So the yellow tape goes up Saturday morning, by the next day,
Sunday, the yellow tape goes down. The sheriff completed the investigation,
ruled it a double homicide and suicide.
BARRETT: Well…that’s amazing, that they can…
MADSEN: Yeah…and some of the neighbors, of course, who are retired have
relatives in law enforcement, and one told me that one…that a relative heads
up the homicide department of a medium-sized California city and said
“absolutely that did not happen that way”, and said that in his particular
jurisdiction, they have a lot of cases where murders are made to look like
suicides. So that came from somebody who heads up a homicide division in a
fairly medium, y’know, medium to large size city in the San Francisco Bay
BARRETT: Yeah, these alleged suicides are so convenient because that means
you never have to put the guy on trial; y’know, if they have Oswald as the
patsy in the JFK killing, then he’s still alive, that’s a problem, so of
course he has to be silence, then Jack Ruby has to be given cancer while
he’s in jail, but it’s so much more convenient if your 19 alleged 9/11 perps
are all supposedly dead in the plane crashes, even though 10 of them show up
alive afterwards, well, we can just ignore that, and likewise, here, it’s a
lot easier for them to cover these things up if they have a dead patsy, who
can’t fight back, can’t hire a lawyer, y’know, they don’t have to prove
anything in court….y’know, it sounds like not one shred of evidence has been
produced indicating this is what they say it is, but it doesn’t matter,
because there’s nobody there to fight it.
MADSEN: That’s right, and some of Phil Marshall’s friends and neighbors told
me that, y’know, although Phil wasn’t paranoid by any stretch, on occasion
he did express some fear for his personal safety, but he didn’t dwell on it,
he didn’t live like he was paranoid, but certainly on more than one occasion
had made that statement to a couple of people, not in a…y’know…sort of like
a passing, not even a serious thing, “oh yeah, y’know, I have to watch my
back”, y’know, statements like that.
BARRETT: I can understand why he would say that. Now I wonder if, at some
point, there shouldn’t be a reform in the justice system when a dead person
is blamed for a crime, they…a good lawyer should defend that person, and
they should have to convict him in court. That would make it a lot harder
for these organized crime elements to stage these murder-suicides.
MADSEN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And most people I spoke to felt that whoever
did this…y’know, as I mentioned, there’s meth labs in the area, so there’s a
criminal element in the county, but these are not professionals by any
stretch. These are sort of like moonshiners during prohibition. These aren’t
the smartest people around, so whoever carried this out, this was a big-time
professional hit. So even if somebody had hired locals to carry this out, it
would have been much sloppier than the way it was carried out. This was,
y’know, a very quick-entry, one gun-shot each to the three people and the
dog, and out they went.
BARRETT: Well you have a lot of contacts inside the intelligence community,
having been a former National Security Agency officer yourself…and you’re
maybe the top forum for leaks, right alongside VeteransToday which is a
whole lot of people, and you’re just one guy, and apparently have a lot of
good sources. Do you think there’s any chance you’re going to find inside
information about this?
MADSEN: I wish that were the case, but unfortunately what has happened to
the whistleblowers in the government over the last, I’d say, two years with
unprecedented use of the Espionage Act to put whistleblowers in prison, the
last being John Kiriakou, formerly of the CIA. I and and others, and I’ve
talked with national security reporters from major, major newspapers, and,
y’know, everybody’s saying the same thing; that the sources are drying up,
the whistleblowers feel like they can’t be, y’know, can’t be seen at all
talking to anybody because of the Obama administration’s use of the
Espionage Act — a very arcane 1917 act that was instituted by the guy I call
the original Neo-Con, Woodrow Wilson — being used to put people in the
government, and in the contracting community, in prison for violation of
this law, and in this respect, Obama is ten times worse than George W. Bush,
and that’s being kind. Bush, I don’t believe has used the Espionage Act
against a whistleblower per se, but, of course, did use it against somebody
in the NSA. Ken Ford, who I’ve written extensively about, who had
information that there were no WMDs in Iraq, and after last night’s MSNBC
special, we once again have been told that that was a big charade… the WMDs.
But as far as going after people that talk to the press, Obama is much worse
than Bush, and I never thought I’d say that, I never thought I’d have the
opportunity to say that anybody would be worse than Bush, in any respect,
but certainly Obama is worse than Bush in this respect.
BARRETT: And not only is this to ask, why is that? Because, one, live
analysis is that the Neo-Cons were the driving force behind 9/11, that they
hooked up with Bush and, y’know, the Bush crime mob, and that it was
essentially a coup de tat, and rolled back the Constitution, and created a
USA along the model of the Straussian Neo-cons that they’d always wanted,
but Obama is supposedly a creature of the realists, people like Brzezinski,
who presumably want to roll back the War on Terror, and go a lot easier on
turning the United States into a lockdown police state, and yet as you say
Obama has been worse on whistleblowers, and worse in many ways on civil
liberties than Bush was. What can possibly be the motivation for this?
MADSEN: Well, meet the new boss, same as the old. Y’know, with Bush we had
the CIA because of the father, and Prescott the grandfather, and then in
this case, I’ve written….I wrote this book about, y’know, Obama and his
family’s ties with the CIA, and I just think it’s still this agency…and
people say “oh, the CIA can’t do everything.” Well, there is the CIA
headquartered in Langley, Virginia, that, y’know multiple building
headquarters, and that’s “the CIA”, y’know, the brick-and-mortar CIA, but
when I say CIA, I’m talking about the larger-than-the-CIA, which include all
kinds of front companies, people who once worked for them but now work in
the shadows, contractors, and foreign associates who may have gone rogue, or
may not have gone rogue, may have gone rogue and then get, y’know, activated
again by certain elements within our government. So that’s the CIA, and I
think is controlled by both the Bush administration and this administration.
It’s not that headquarters where you’re going to go in there and find files
on all these events and these people. This is a very amorphous organization,
but one that continues to exisit and go unpunished for its crimes.
BARRETT: Well, it’s interesting, because if you’re looking for continuity
between this history of big crimes, starting with the JFK assassination and
continuing on through 9/11, and all of these many murders, it does seem that
the CIA has played a fairly noticeable role in all of this, with, as I said
earlier, Cord Meyer, the CIA Operation Mockingbird Chief, being named as a
lead as a JFK conspirator by Howard Hunt…and it seems that this kind of
dirty side of the larger CIA that you’re talking about has been involved in
a whole series of these crimes related to, y’know, overturning democracy,
or, y’know, rolling back the Constitution, since 1963. And of course, people
point to JFK having threatened to tear the CIA up into little pieces and
scatter it to the winds, to basically eliminate the entire covert operations
side of CIA and give that over to the military… all of these things have
been cited, so do you think if we were going to do one reform to try to get
a handle on all these abuses, do you think maybe abolishing the CIA, or at
least its covert operations side, would do it?
MADSEN: Oh, yeah, and Senator Moynihan from New York wanted to do that, he
said turn them back into an intelligence gathering organization, put them
back under the State Department from which many of them came, and get rid of
all the covert, clandestine services, special ops and all that…of course, he
said that after he announced plans to retire from the Senate, and his seat
was taken by Hillary Clinton, who certainly hasn’t show any inclination to
agree with anything her predecessor Senator Moynihan had to say about that
BARRETT: Okay, and of course there’s the private agencies as well, that as
you say, may be tangentially affiliated with CIA; people like John Perkins
the economic hitman, he and his colleagues actually worked for the banksters
directly, they were not on the government payroll but they they were doing
the same kind of thing. It’s all a big ugly mess, and it’s great that we
have people like you, Wayne Madsen, to help clarify what’s really going on.
Well, thank you Wayne, it’s been great, I hope to have you back on again.
Keep up the good work.
MADSEN: Okay, you bet. Thank you very much.
BARRETT: Okay. Bye-bye.
MADSEN: Bye now.
BARRETT: That’s Wayne Madsen. He’s on the web at
waynemadsenreport.com – that’s W-A-Y-N-E, Wayne, and Madsen is M-A-D-S-E-N.
Waynemadsenreport.com. Highly recommended. If you’re going to actually pay
money to subscribe to any news service, you’d a lot better with Wayne than
just about anybody else out there. Certainly a lot better than, oh, the New
York Times or your local newspaper. I’m Kevin Barrett, this is No Lies
Radio. Once again, my radio blog is truthjihadradio.blogspot.com, and the
website is truthjihad.com. Back here next week, and tomorrow, I’ll have a
really terrific show on the evil, rival network again – find out about it
truthjihadradio.blogspot.com. Until the next one, have a great Tuesday