"APFN TALKS TO THE ENEMY"
I was asked to send this out at various conferences. All of you who worked so hard to bring the truth out, are getting noticed!
Note...This interview was on 01-05-95. On 01-06-95 we learned from the news, that the FBI was handing out suspensions in the shooting death of Randy Weaver's wife.
Randy Weaver gets his family killed for selling a shotgun (I beleive just under 18") and jail time, and the FBI agents responsible for the shooting of a unarmed woman holding a baby in her doorway by a sniper, gets 15 days suspension.
Where is the Justice in the Justice Department?
End my comments ~ Ken Vardon
L.A. TIMES // A.P.F.N. TELEPHONE INTERVIEW 01/05/1995
American Patriot Fax Network
KEN VARDON, A.P.F.N. FOUNDER,
"APFN TALKS TO THE ENEMY"
JUST A LITTLE PART OF A DAY AT A.P.F.N.
1:37 p.m.: Kenneth, this is Louis Sahagan. I'm
calling for Kenneth Vardon. This is Louis
Sahagun. I'm the Denver Bureau Chief for the
L.A. Times. I'm planning on doing a story about
Anti-Planning Movements in the West, particularly
in Montana by Constitutionalists and others, and if
you could please call me at 303-830-1975 I'd love to
talk to you for a second. Thanks!
6:10 p.m. (phone rang):
KEN VARDON: Hello.
CALLER: Hi, This is Louis Sahagun.
(Whistle while Ken changed PBX phones)
Ken: I'm sorry, Louis. I had to get off my PBX
Louis: No problem, Ken. Hey look, I just want to
talk to you for a second. I'm doing a
story...planning on doing a story about a whole
new kind of movement, it looks to me, by the
Constitutionalists in Montana and in other states,
I'm finding out. These are Anti-Planning people
They're just fed up with...
K: I've never heard of them.
L: ...zoning laws and master plans that seem to
infringe on the rights of private property. And in
the course of doing this story everybody I talked to
I asked "who else should I talk to?" And in the
course of the story I learned about...I had no idea
that there was such a vast network of faxes and
internets. I talked to a human rights guy in
Montana, Ken Tool, of the human rights group of
Montana. He said, quote The far right is kicking
our ass on the information highway...quote...
L: Anyway, in the course of doing this, one of the
people I talked to at the NAPA Sentinal suggested I
talk to you.
L: Harry, the publisher.
K: Harry Martin.
L: Ken, all I want to know is...Can you give me an
idea of what is the American Patriot Fax Network
and how ...how...how much monthly you guys have?
K: Well, the American Patriot Fax Network is ME!
L: Uh huh!
K: All by myself.
K: And, you know, basically you're my enemy!
L: Why am I your enemy?
K: Major media's the enemy.
L: Oh, ho (laughter) why?
K: Because you lie!
L: Hey... I don't lie.
K: Hey...they haven't told the truth in years, Bud!
K: Don't take it personal. (laughter)
K: But I told Connie Chung the same thing.
L: You told Connie Chung?
L: Well don't include me with Connie Chung!
I'm a journalist, a print journalist.
K: I know.
L: We don't count t.v. news people as real
K: Well, who owns the LA. Times.
L: Well, stockholders, now!
K: Uh huh! Have you ever read the little article
that was put about "Who Rules America?"
L: No, I haven't.
K: About the media?
K: Uh huh...Anyhow, by the way, I'm not being
facetious here, okay? You know, I have a network
of people I fax to that fax to other people and we
cross-network information across the country and
we circumvent the elite media, so to speak. The
elite media has lied about Randy Weaver, they've
lied about Waco, they've lied about Donald Scott,
they've lied about Gordon Kahl. You know, we
have a serious problem in this country and there's
a lot of, you know, God-fearing Americans that are
very upset with the media. We're more upset with
the media than we are with the government.
K: Because the media selects the government.
L: Now that's a surprise. Now that one I haven't
K: Well you should tune in to talk radio. You
know, right there in Denver, you've got KHNC
which is a pretty good station.
L: Well, we've got Chuck Baker right down here in
Colorado Springs...just south of here.
K: Um hm.
L: Ken. I don't understand why you think the
media is the enemy and not the government,
because I thought it was the other way around.
K: Well, there you go thinking again! But the
media can basically dictate who gets elected and
who doesn't get elected. Okay? Have you ever read
the "Vote Scam?"
L: No, I haven't.
K: By Jim Collier?
L: No, sir.
K: Well, that'd get you up-to-date with that scenario.
L: Well, let me, let me ask you this. Um...here's
the thing...Well, let me tell you something. I, I was
in Eastern Arizona recently, doing a story that's
got nothing to do with what we're talking about.
K: Uh huh.
L: And while I was down there I heard about a
newspaper called the 'Eastern Arizona Courier'.
Now the 'Eastern Arizona Courier' is a little paper
but it's mainstream, and it's the paper people buy
to find out what's going on down there. Right?
While I was down there two weeks ago, some folks
said "Shit, the 'Eastern Arizona Courier' is
printing John Birch Society columns now as
editorials. So I decided on my way back to Tucson
from Ramsey(sp?) to stop by Stafford, the town of
Stafford, and go into the 'Eastern Arizona Courier'
office, and I did that. And I introduced myself to
the managing editor, Mike Blume, and I said,
"Mike, I'm hearing you guys are printing John
Birch Society columns now as editorials. What's
going on? Some people are miffed about it." And
he said the following. He said,"We're doing it
because we believe we're reaching out to a new and
growing constituency in Eastern Arizona whose
concerns resonate with the concerns expressed by
the John Birch Society. So we're reaching out to
these people. They're there and they're growing
and they want to know these things.''
K: Um hum.
L: Ken. The next thing I know , he's telling me
about a take-over of the United States and the New
World Order and all these things, which I'm only
now getting to learn about in this story.
K: Uh huh.
L: Now , the reason I bring that up to you is
because I hear this in Eastern Arizona from a
pretty smart man. Then I hear it from people I'm
talking to in Montana. I hear it from people I'm
talking to in Colorado. I hear it from people I'm
talking to in California. It's like spreading like
wildfire, this kinda stuff. I didn't even know it was
K: Big time.
L: Which means. I mean average Americans at the
street level. Not sagebrush rebellion ranchers or
anything like that...
L: Or classy comotatas. Average Americans are
talking about this stuff.
K: That's because we fax every bank, every realtor,
every trucking company, every construction
company, everywhere across this country...every
day! And those...you know, that little girl that gets
that fax off that fax machine? She reads it and
says, "Oh, my God!" And she makes copies and
everybody in that bank knows it. You can
also...you know I faxed you, the information about
our fax box so anybody in the world can call up
and access and pull down the information I put
into that fax box every day.
L: Hey, man, I am desperate to read "On the Road
K: Yeah. Right.
L: Which you say is hot.
K: Yeah. Get it.
L: Well, how do I get it?
K: You just call from your fax machine and press,
you no, 2 for the special reports. And then press...
L: What is the number, what is the number for the
L: Oh, 9111.
K: Right. All the instructions are on that thing I
faxed to you.
L: If I get this fax from you, it's automatically
charged to...? Oh, yeah, I guess so.
K: It costs you, not me.
L: That's fine.
K: It goes on, you know, if you call from your fax machine...
K: So, anybody that has a fax or computer or fax machine anywhere in the world can get my information. And they do.
L: So all I have to do is call this number and then
hit select 2?
K: Right. And then, you know, it'll tell you to press
the 7 on your touch phone and your start button
on your fax and zammo!
L: Oh good, I can't wait.
K: Now, you know the Orange County Register, of
course. Do you know Alan Brock?
L: Hold it, my wife might.
K: He's a senior...
L: She used to work in the Orange County office at the...
K: Well, he's a senior columnist. He's been in my network forever and ever and ever. The Orlando Sentinel, Charlie Reeves?
L: Um hmm.
L: Tell me Block, what's his name again?
K: Charlie Reeves?
L: No the guy from the Orange County Register.
K: Uh, Alan Brock, B-r-o-c-k.
L: David Bock?
K: No, Alan.
L: Alan Bock?
K: Right, he's a senior columnist.
L: Senior columnist?
L: Chris knows him.
K: Right. And, you know, he's been gettin'...they've
been getting my stuff forever and ever. Of course
they read it and do whatever.
L: Yeah, yeah.
K: You now Charlie Reeves from, like I said, the
Orlando Sentinel, Dick Revis from the Dallas
Observer, you know, I've got tons of talk radi...you
know, the talk radio shows get my stuff across the
country every night and, you know, when I fax to
people like, you know, I'll fax to networkers in
Detroit and then they fax to their talk radio and
their newspapers. So, you know...
L: What about these...
K: The Liberal media gets crazy, and, you know,
the conservative media says "give me more."
L: Oh, really?
K: But you know, when you've got the truth on
black and white and it's in paper, it's hard to deny.
And the difference between a Liberal and a
conservative in a debate is that conservatives can
come with written proof and the liberals are pissin'
in the wind.
L: Well, it's confounding people. It really is. They
don't know how to respond. It's really true. In
Callaspell(sp?), Montana, they're having a helluva
time with the planning commission.
K: Uh huh.
L: The Constitutionalists and others are joining
together and they're filling up every meeting.
K: Um hmm
L: And they're saying "we're not gonna t...we don't
want this stuff."
K: That's right.
L: "We're fed up with this shit and we're not
gonna have it any more. Now they...it's so bad..."
K: Well, you know....
K: You know the Red Beckman story up there? In
L: I don't know Red Beckman, but I just heard of
another thing called the Sellman, Gordon Sellman,
ever heard of him?
L: Gordon Sellman, I'm told, is a guy up in
Montana who's been holed up since spring. He shot
a deputy. The deputy had a bullet-proof vest on. I
just learned of the case and I'm just calling up clips
on it right now. And, but nobody wants to move on
Gordon, 'cause they don't want another Randy
Weaver case on their hands.
K: Well, do you know the Militia of Montana?
L: I've only heard in passing, Ken. I don't know
K: John Trouchman? They were on the Donahue
Show last week on the 27th?
K: But, uh, you know, the Militia of Montana, Bob
Fletcher or John Trouchman, you know, they're
happy to take you. They'll take ya, they'll educate
ya, they'll, you know, do whatever you want. You
know, we've got some, you know, the media, of
course, wants to label this as white racists
supremacists whatever. Let me tell you somethin',
Bud, this fax that goes out of here is black and
white. It doesn't have color, race, religion or
nothin'. You know, we've got...these faxes are in
the black groups or in the Jewish groups, they're
everywhere and, you know, the media wants to
portray the patriot movement as a white racist
supremist crap. It's, you know...
L: What is it?
K: It just ain't goin'. It's just normal Americans.
There's black, white, green...there's everything in
this network. Yeah! People are...
L: This is intere...I...I...Think...Ken...a...this is
exactly why I'm calling you. I, I'm beginning to
think it's just a variety of people who are...I...I
want to call them anti-federalists.
K: We're people that love...We want home rule.
We want the federal government out of our life.
Okay? We do not want your tax dollars to go to the
IMF back to your city accountant. You know,
we've got the federal government bribing our
K: You know, this is sick. And, you know, home
rule is taking over across the country.
L: That's the key, home rule.
L: That's what's happening,,,
L: ...in Montana right now.
K: Absolutely. Not in Montana....everywhere.
Catron County, New Mexico was the first county
that declared the Constitution as their county
ordinance and put the federal government on
notice to get the shit out of the county.
L: They declared the Constitution as a county
K: That's correct.
L: I should call them.
K: Um hmm.
L: I heard of Jim Catron, who's the county attorney down there.
L: (cough, choke)
L: Are other, and now, the...
K: You should interview Charlie Duke, in...uh...
Sena...he just made Senator in Colorado...but you
know, Colorado was the first to reaffirm the 10th
Amendment and in the last six or seven months we
have at least 10 states that reaff...uh...uh...uh...the
10th Amendment. The 10th Amendment is telling
the federal government to get out.
L: Ken, let me ask you this. Um....I.......I......I
do......I......I.....I hear all this about....
K: And Waco, by the w....
L: I covered Waco for us. I was among five
reporters...I was there...
K: Well then, you did a shitty job.
L: Wait...not me...Goddamnit
L: I did not.
K: (still laughing)
L: All I had to rely on was that the FBI had a
closed news conference every fu~king day...
K: (still laughing) Yeah!
L: ...and they were the only people we could get
information from because they put a perimeter two
miles two miles away from the compound...
K: I know, by the way, I...you know, I had a
reporter down there, and I faxed out reports every
K: And, uh, you still haven't told...
L: Yeah, but he didn't do better than us, I bet...
K: You still haven't told the truth about Waco.
And Waco is not going to end uh...not going to go
away until the murders of those children is brought
before the American public!
L: Yeah, look man, hey, I...I know. That was the...
K: I just came back from Waco, by the way, about
a couple weeks ago.
L: You did?
K: And I spend the whole day down there with
Roger Holdeman, David Koresh's half- brother.
L: Oh, really? (very surprised)
L: Wow! How was that?
K: (chuckle) I got...By the way, I was wired. I got
audio and video of everything.
L: How was that?
K: Well, you know, uh, um...what do you mean,
how was that?
L: I mean wh...
K: David sent him out of there two weeks ahead of
time. He knew the deal was coming down.
L: Was it interesting...I mean was it...
K: Have you ever read the Paul Wilcher document
on Waco? You know Waco was definitely a CIA,
drugs and guns operation.
L: I hadn't heard that.
K: Ha, well, it's common knowledge. You know,
you guys down there that were reporters in Waco
were out there partying on your little deal and
didn't find out nothin'.
L: Again...we were restri...the FBI was giving out
dribs and drabs every day at a news conference at,
you know, once a day.
K: Lyin' through their teeth.
L: And that's all we had for information.
K: And nobody ever went to interview any of the
Davidians. None of the media said anything David
Koresh let the kids out and they were supposed to
go to their families, this and that and the other
thing, and the FBI double-crossed them.
L: I happen to know that some big high-powered
radi...uh...t.v. networks had some of the Davidians
in hotels and the t.v. stations were paying for their
hotel rooms and all their meals under the
agreement that they wouldn't talk to anybody else
but them. So, every time something happened in the Waco situation, I was there. They would trot
thes people out of their hotel room and do an
inte view with them and then put 'em back inside
u...It was horrible for getting information.
K: Um hmm.
L: It was hell for guys like me. It was...It was bad
news. All we had to rely on was the FBI...
L: ...and ATF.
K: Right. And, of course, you know, they were
takin' orders, you know, for the cover up, you
know, really bad.
L: Well that...no I had never heard about CIA
drugs and guns and that I've never heard of until
K: Well, George Rodin, that ran that place before
David Koresh took over, okay, you know, that was
a major meth factory there. They were doing $30
to $50 million dollars a year.
L: We did hear about that...and I think Newsweek
K: And when David Koresh threw him out...
K: ...you know, they went in and made the deal to,
you know, the guns, right? They weren't doing any
illegal guns as far as guns shows and stuff like that.
That's crap. Okay? And, you know, Paul Fadda,
by the way, wasn't even there then, but you know,
the uh...uh...there's considerable amount of money
David sent outta there plus the evidence. David
had the list of all the people that were in the
payoffs when that place was a drug deal. He was in
L: That's interesting, too. Is there any way to prove
K: Ha ha, of course.
L: Oh...my...let me ask you this...getting back to...
K: It's common knowledge in Waco, by the way.
But, the reason that the Davidians uh...you know,
when I went there to visit, and so on and so forth,
is, you know, my ex-wife and her husband own the
marina down there...Tom and Betty Campbell?
L: Um hum.
K: And, you know, I've...had visited Waco and
visi...you know, we're friends...It's not like, you
know, one of those things.
L: Uh huh, it's a nice town, yeah.
K: And, so, you know, Roger, and I was surprised
that nobody had really de-briefed Roger after the
uh fire and that. You know, he went to Betty
Ford. He's still a drug...a speed freak...
L: Um hum
K: But he's five years younger than David. And
David's father, or his step father that really raised
David...he lived at Mt. Carmel up there until, you
know, uh not too long before the fire and such.
And nobody's really ever de-briefed him. He won't
talk to anybody yet.
L: I talked to some rock 'n' rollers in town who
knew David real well...David Koresh.
K: Yeah, David was, you know, he was a very...
L: He was...
K: charismatic person...
L: ...with all those guys.
K: Yeah, he could pick up the guitar and...
L: He was damn good on the guitar.
K: Yeah. Yeah.
L: But they never mentioned, or maybe they didn't
want to tell me...no one ever said that David
Koresh was taking drugs.
K: He wasn't.
L: No one I talked to said that.
K: He got rid of the drug business.
K: You know, but if you interviewed Amil Rodin, okay?...which, you know, she was the one that was
down there. When I seen her she had the smallest
pupils of any eyes I've ever seen in my life.
L: Uh oh! There's the signal.
K: Really! What a weirdo! Then, you know, I was
gonna go up to Vernon, Texas to see George Rodin.
But I've got an affidavit from a guy that was in jail
with George Rodin during 1988...
L: Um hmm
K: ...You know, for six months? You know, this
guy's a freak.
L: George Rodin is still alive?
K: Yeah! He's in a mental institution in Vernon,
L: Oh, I didn't know that.
K: See, you're the major media and you didn't
L: Well, I was...
K: That's ridic...
L: Waco compound. Give me a break Ken...
L: I didn't get into that.
K: Were you there and seen the fire?
L: Uh, I'd come home for leave after one full
month there, and on the day I got home, my called
and said "The place is on fire, get your ass back
there immediately", so by the time it took me to fly
back to Waco it was burned to the ground.
K: Oh, yeah.
L: Completely burned to the ground.
K: Well, you know, we have all kin...have you ever
seen the videos, any of the videos that c....have you
seen "Day 51"?
L: Yes I have.
K: Have you seen the KPOC video called "The
L: No, I have not.
K: Okay, KPOC, Ponca City, Oklahoma, David
Hall, they produced a video. In this video they
prove that the uh....and we've got all the autopsy
information in...that the combination of the
chemicals that they put in there...the gas?
L: Um hmm
K: That as soon as that gas hits liquid, it turns to
cyanide. The autopsies prove that almost all the
women and children were dead of cyanide before
the fire even started...
L: Ken, if that...honest to God?...why didn't the
defense attorneys bring that shit up if that's true?
K: Because they're...
K: Wait a minute...Dick DeGarren, okay?
K: ...Went to school with William Sessions. Ann
Richards, okay? ...is from Waco. They all went to
Baylor. And I don't know whether you know this,
but the guy at Baylor is a 33rd degree Mason.
Uh...Ummm...The defense attorneys...of course,
there's a book out called "The Waco Whitewash"
written by Jack DeVault, which will cover the trial
in detail, okay, in that cover-up. Umm...
L: Well, that's all...
K: The...okay, I interviewed Sarah Baine, the jury
K: ...for the trial? And a...I interviewed her on a
radio show here, KLAV. We have the tape of the
interview....and a...she'll tell you about the defense
attorneys and the judge and what they pulled on
L: She thinks they didn't do an adequate job?
K: She wants a grand jury called, too!
L: Oh, really.
K: Absolutely. That judge lied and deceived the
jury. She wrote a letter to the, you know, the whole
circumstances of course, you know, the interview
and that book and so on and so forth....it's all in
there. And there's also another video out
concerning that by Jeff Baker...umm....out of
...a...Florida...on the trial and all the cover-up of
the trial. Uh...
L: Let me...
K: There's another book by Ken Fawcett called
"Blind Justice" that has all...
L: Jesus! Your a walking dic...my...
K: I got more information....I know more
information on Waco than anybody in the whole
L: (laughing) I think you do.
K: I know more than the Davidians know!
L.A. Times Interview Continued
Last updated on 05/27/2002 06:23 PM