L: Now I called one of your groups, your idyl,
idology's enemies in the human rights side over
there, and I asked them about this. "What about
this, I'm looking and I can't believe it, there it is, it
says it, Royal Hong Kong Police"?
K: Um hmm
L: He said all there is to that...he said,what those
guys aren't telling you is the context. All that is, is a
provision that will...(telephone beep) concern...that
Hong Kong Police in the transition...
K: Uh huh
L: ...you know, back to the Communist control...
K: Uh huh
L: That they wouldn't be safe under the
Communist control and that they would be (beep)
at that end of the human uh, human abuse right...
K: Excuse me.
L: So the Senate, so the Congress decided to help
them, kinda pre-clear them through INS as
refugees after 1999...
K: Uh huh
L: That's all that is...
K: Uh huh
L: ...according to him. He doesn't see this as part
of the eminent or laying the groundwork for the
takeover of the United States. You see what I
mean? All this is is to help some guys that are
gonna get their asses kicked by the Communists
get into the United States before that happens.
K: Well, I don't buy that.
L: Have you heard that before?
K: Oh sure, I've heard all that.
L: Okay.
K: But I don't buy it. And why is it even in there?
And that's a separate issue and it shouldn't be
involved with the Crime Bill, and anything that
significant that affects this country, that is crap
that you got in there. Okay?
L: Well...
K: And it's crap that you're hearin' from that guy.
L: It also does say, recruit and hire former Royal
Hong Kong Police officers into federal law
enforcement positions. I have to admit it does say
that. (laughing)
K: That's right.
L: It's there.
K: And the guys that wrote it in there thought they
were gonna sneak something through.
L: Who the hell did write that in there, does
anyone know?
K: No.
L: Who did that?
K: And why didn't the media read the Crime Bill
and report that way ahead of time? (long pause)
Yeah! Why do we hate the media? You know, how
come every Patriot in the country knew that that
was in there, but the L.A. Times and the New York
Times didn't? Come on.
L: I...honest to God, had I known it was in here, I
certainly would've lobbied to have somebody in
Washington, one of our people ask, what the fu~k
is this Hong Kong Police stuff.
K: And that's only one...
L: Who wrote it, how did it get in here...
K: Right.
L: And all that stuff.
K: Right.
L: Amazing...It's...it''s...it's all interesting stuff.
Ken, thank you so....
K: You gonna have fun now. (both laughing)
L: ...whole new world out there, man, It's wild! It
is wild!
K: Look, feel free to call me any time you want to
and any time you want to talk about this on a
check and balance basis, I would be happy to
discuss it with you. There's nothing clandestine I'm
doin'. I have tens and tens of thousands of files. I
get every newsletter from everybody across the
L: Ken...oh...I, Ken, I do have one last question,
K: Uh huh
L: Harry Martin.
K: Um hmm
L: He's got a problem with...with Bo Gritz, who I
thought was one of the leaders of this movement. I
did a story on Bo about three months ago.
K: Uh huh
L: Uh...he's got a problem with Bo Gritz, do you?
K: You betch'your ass. The bottom line...you
know, I don't draw a line or an association with
any group, party or organization, you know, I'm
not affiliated with anybody, you know, I tell
L: Is this the Trojan Horse thing that...
K: I'm just an American that...huh...pardon?
L: ...the Trojan Horse thing that I heard about
today from Harry?
K: Uh huh
L: Is that what you're talkin' about?
K: Uh huh...uh huh
L: Unbelievable!
K: Uh huh
L: Well, I'll tell you what, Bo Gritz is getting a
whole bunch of people to buy property up there...I
was...in Idaho to go live with him.
K: He's gonna be governor of Idaho.
L: For Armageddon?
K: Yep. I personally don't have a problem with Bo,
but you know, you never know. I don't know, you
know. I don't throw rocks at anybody. He's trying
to expose the New World Order just like everybody
else is. You know, we now know that lots of things
point to the CIA. The CIA's got deep cover
clandestine operations all over this country.
L: The National Security Agency can listen in to
any telephone conversation....
K: Anywhere.
L: Anywhere in the world, anytime they want.
K: Yeah, it's like is your phone tapped? I says I
0don't care, I hope it is tapped.
L: They can listen any time they want (laughing)
K: Yeah, whatever I've got to say they need to hear
anyhow. (both laughing)
L: Well, look, man. Thank you so very much, Ken.
I'm gonna call up this fax right now, if my assistant
can help me understand the directions.
K: Okay, great.
L: And uh...and I can't wait.
K: And uh...I was gonna give you uh...you know, if
you ever wanted to talk to somebody more about
Waco, uh, I was gonna give you Ron Engleman's
number here.
L: Well, let me tell you that...Waco, I think...we
wrote the shit out of it. We wrote a lot of a...
K: How'd you like to go back and .... (flipped tape
over) ...to investigation of the Justice Department.
We want the DOJ investigated. Okay?
L: Why would you care if Randy Weaver was a
CIA operative for B...?
K: I don't care. They killed his mother (he meant
wife) and his kid.
L: That's true.
K: Okay? I don't care who he is.
L: That's true.
K: You know, they went in there and shot a 14-
year old boy.
L: That's true. In the back.
K: And, you know what? When they assassinated
President Kennedy, they assassinated a grown
adult that was playing the game.Okay? When they
killed Randy Weaver('s son), or they burned those
children down there in Waco, they killed innocent
L: Right.
K: And there is premeditated murder in Waco. We
know that Janet Reno met with the Army
uh...uh...chemical engineers from 6 in the morning
till 11 eastern time. She knew everything there was
to know about that gas. She knew that that gas
turned into cyanide. She knew when that gas went
in there that it was gonna murder the women and
children. You at the new conference, heard Bob
Ricks say...
L: Yes.
K: When we found the cement thing, we put
massive gas in there...massive gas! And you know
what, you light a match, you're gonna run. Why
didn't those people run out of there? They were
dead! We all have...saw...have strong indications
that a CIA wet team went in there and shot those
people...shot the key players anyhow, the ones that
L: Why would a CIA wet team have to go in and
shoot the Davidians if they were...if they were being
gassed with cyanide. They wouldn't have to, man.
K: Well, we've got the reports that the wet team
went in early in the morning, around 3 in the
morning...4 of 'em. I did a radio show with Tom
Donahue outta Dallas sometime after the fire and
all that, and after the show a CIA agent called me
up and told me all about lots and lots of things. I
have it all on tape.
L: Ken, this stuff is just blowing my mind. I've
never heard any of this stuff, man. This is all wild,
amazing stuff.
K: Well, I've got all...it's...I've got all the proof, it's
all here. Ron Engleman, by the way is 505-
L: Wait a minute. Hold it, hold it, let me a...one
K: No, E-n-g-l-e-m-a-n. 505-281-5157.
L: And what, again is his connection?
K: Well, he was the uh...uh...radio announcer.
L: Oh, oh, Ron, of course, rrrr rrr rrr
K: Right. And then since then, of course, he's de-
briefed the different Davidians...he's, you know,
the...we've got the first video tape that was made
by Ken Fawcett down there that came outta there
and uh, you know, we can prove that the ATF shot
the...you know, their own men. We know that the
initial fire fight started with uh...uh...a BATF
shootin' another BATF guy in the back, and, you
know, a scream went out, you know, "Man down."
and the whole BATF thing just opened up. We
know from the 911 tapes, if you'll listen to the 911
tapes. You're the media, I cannot believe that you
L: Come on, Ken, I did listen, I have heard those
K: Okay, that it was at least 15, 20, 30 minutes into
the fire fight before the Davidians even fired a
L: Well, of course, the version ATF told us at the
news conference...
K: Wrong! You can listen to the 911...
L: Ken, when David Koresh opened the door, and
then they talked, shut the door, according to them
bullets came through the door and then they
opened up. Remember?
K: That's...that's not correct.
L: I know, but that's the official version.
K: That's not correct. And on the 911 tapes you
can hear Wayne Martin and...and Lench is sayin',
you know "Hold your fire, hold your fire," and he
says "We haven't been firing." Okay? And we've
also had...you can put sound electronic equipment
on those tapes and you can tell that none of
those...none of those shots were coming from inside
the compound.
L: Okay.
K: Okay? And you could also interview Sarah
Baine and, you know, she'll tell you about the trial,
and the cover up of all that. And read those books.
I think you have a major responsibility as a
journalist that was reporting for a major
newspaper down there...
L: Right. I was...
K: ...to investigate Waco from the truth!
L: Well, Ken, right now I'm working on a story
about Anti-Planning (both laughing) in the West,
so, and I want to try and sti...
K: Yeah, but it doesn't involve the murder of
L: Ken?
K: Yes.
L: I'm gonna keep in touch and I'm gonna call
K: Thank you.
L: ..."On The Road to Armageddon" right now.
K: Okay.
L: Thank you.
K: That's about as hard as I get on my enemies.
L: You're pretty tough. (both laughing)
K: Nice talking with you, Louis.
L: Thanks, man.
K: Yes, sir. Bye bye.
L: Bye. (Hangup)

K: =

Kenneth L. Vardon, Founder
A.P.F.N. (American Patriot Fax Network)
3230 East Flamingo, #352
Las Vegas, Nevada 89121
Telephone: (702) 698-3127
FAX: (702) 433-9916
Fax Box: (702) 226-9111

L: =

Louis Sahagun
Los Angeles Times, Denver Bureau Chief
Telephone: 303-830-
FAX: 303-830-

Transcribed by apfn Di Felice. apfn@apfn.org
Webmaster: http://www.apfn.org

Ken: So, what do you think?

apfn: I must've listened to this tape a hundred
times during the transcription and noticed more
and more each time. I never had to spell the kind
of surprising sounds Louis made, and I spelled
names of people and places as they sound. It seems,
as much as Louis was checking to ask you about
the Anti-Planning commission, that he was just as
interested in how big APFN is? How did it get so
big so fast? How did these typical street-people
Americans learn so much so fast that they don't
rely on mainstream newspapers anymore? And
should he (or they) be afraid of the militia? All in
all, he was surprised at how much you knew about
every subject, and he hadn't heard much of any of
it before. This conversation is the best I've ever
heard concerning a person new to subjects of the
New World Order, government take-over and
wrong-doings. The guy was so surprised, shocked
and amazed, and what's best of all is that IT'S ON
TAPE. This tape should be played on the radio all
over the country. It not only shows the amazement
from one person new to what the patriots all know,
but he's a major media reporter who should've
known something about some of it. You scolded
him almost as much as you do some of the talk
radio show hosts in your Army, and he
continuously apologized, but you also said you
understood and didn't mean to holler at him. One
thing I'm sure of: Louis became a totally different
person in 45 minutes! I'm anxious to see if he
carries out is new responsibility, as you told him he
should, to start reporting the truth, now that he's
gotten so many new answers and knows where to
get answers to all the rest. You should stress that
people have to HEAR this tape. Reading it doesn't
do it justice. I can't stop thinking of Louis. I think
he's still pacing the floor days later due to
information overload, like new people do when
they're brought up to date in a hurry. He's just
become enlightened, and seemed like an o.k. guy.
The 'Times' might have just lost a good reporter to
your Army!!! With just the little bit he learned on
the phone, he's surely thinking differently now. He
got a good start and has the potential to become
one of your top "Angels!"
I'd say fax this one around the world and up the 10
x 10 to make everyone send 50 to those who will
send 50. It not only shows the reaction of someone
hearing this for the first time, but he's a major
media reporter, and he's never learned the truth--
plus it's so full of info that everyone should be
aware of anyway. Start duplicating the tapes, also--
send them to those who will copy 10 to those who
will copy 10, etc. and get them played on their local
radio stations. Was up all night--it's 8:20 a.m. --



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Last updated on 05/27/2002 06:23 PM