Excerpts from Mt. Carmel, the Unseen Reality

Sunday, 01-Oct-00 14:36:57 writes:
Excerpts from Mt. Carmel, the Unseen Reality

by Livingstone Fagan
Reflections on the Siege and Aftermath:

"It has been several months now since the events of Mt. Carmel and the deaths
of those whom I have loved. Since March of 1993 I have experienced life in a
number of jail cells across the State of Texas. As a continuation of the
injustice practiced against us, we were also made to endure this government's
shameful attempt to hide its atrocities through the judicial process. For
seven weeks we were dragged through the courts, shackled hands and feet. By
courtesy of the electronic media, we were paraded before the world,
humiliated, demonized and lied about. Although judged and convicted, I remain
unconvinced of any guilt. In my soul I am continually reminded of my
innocence, and the innocence of my family and friends who were there with me.
We have become part of the continuing story of justice undone. Since the dawn
of time, the endurance by the just of the injustice of the unjust. Another
case for the statute books, showing the frailty of the judgments of men
separated from a knowledge of God."

Davidian Encounters with the BATF:

"The public are generally unaware of the numerous efforts that were made by
the residents of Mt. Carmel to prevent this attack. Through the testimony and
spirit of the prophetic scriptures, we were informed several years before
that an attack would be launched against us. This attack would occur because
of the position of faith and thinking we held. From the above one can begin
to see the impact of this thinking in appraising us of the governments
deceptions and corrupt practices. Also its impact in equipping one to
forcibly resist the government's encroachment upon one's person. In any
event, this foreknowledge was employed in a succession of efforts to avert
this attack against us through peaceful means. The limits of these efforts
did not include surrendering our faith and thinking. This was non-negotiable.
The significance of this will become increasingly apparent as we proceed."

"Our first encounter with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF),
was in the latter part of 1992. Two agents visited the dealer's premises from
whom David purchased his guns. Their stated purpose was to inspect his sales
records. While they were there on the premises, the dealer contacted David by
phone, informing him of their presence and interest in the purchases he had
made. David told him to tell them to come to the Mt. Carmel premises, where
they could physically inspect his purchases. This invitation was flatly
rejected. We were later informed the agents said they did not want to do it
that way! This is significant, since the BATF places heavy emphasis on the
inspection of David's guns as justification for their actions on February
28th 1993...This was to be the beginning of a number of attempts to
communicate with the Feds that were to be ignored."

"In January 1993, approximately two months before the attack against the Mt.
Carmel property, the BATF had set up what is now generally known as the
surveillance house. This was located opposite the Mt. Carmel center. The
agents posed as students attending a local college. Some of the men from Mt.
Carmel had on an occasion visited the house, as a welcome gesture to our new
neighbors...Our contacts with the agents on this occasion was also rejected.
Nevertheless an invitation was left for them to visit us. One agent did in
fact visit on a few occasions as part of the undercover operation. By this
time, it was becoming increasingly clear that these people were not being
truthful with us. Nevertheless we cordially accepted their visits. While on
our premises he participated in our bible studies, and also practiced
shooting on a makeshift shooting range at the rear of the building."

"When the cattle trailers, which were filled with fully-armed agents arrived,
David opened the front door unarmed to meet with these agents. He stated
there were women and children in the building and we needed to talk about
this. It was then he sustained gunshot wounds to the hand and side. Much was
happening at this time. The helicopters were round the back of the building
firing. There was a team on the roof trying to break in. Inside, the
residents of Mt. Carmel were orientating themselves to what was happening.
After his being wounded, the front door was slammed shut. The sounds of
gunfire increased in intensity. Interestingly, the BATF via the media, would
have the public believe, David opened the door snickered, shut the door and
the residents of Mt. Carmel began firing. To use an English phrase, this is

Government Conduct:

"The fact that the element of surprise was knowingly lost, yet the attack
took place regardless, is definitive proof of unreasonable search and
seizure. Through the testimony of their own witnesses we are informed that
the planners of this attack relied heavily on the element of surprise being
present for any reasonable expectation of success. By reverse logic, one must
conclude that the absence of this element significantly reduces or removes
altogether any reasonable expectation of success. To know that the element of
surprise was lost, yet proceed regardless, cannot be excused as an accident.
It can either be seen as a deliberate intention to commit murder, or a
flagrant display of arrogance at the expense of people's lives. In any event,
both are inexcusable. The fact that we are here dealing with human lives, the
executing of such an attack, with or without this element of surprise, should
never have occurred in the first place. The real truth is, we were attacked
by a bunch of hoodlums under the cover of bogus laws. Through the surrender
of their conscientious judgment for monetary gain, these agents became
instrumental in bringing about this murderous conspiracy."

"I am not an American citizen, but I am not un-American. In my understanding
of the Constitution, assuming it to be still in force, it is the right of the
citizens of this nation not to be subject to unreasonable search and seizure.
I don't believe it takes much intelligence to conclude that approximately 100
fully armed agents, 3 military styled helicopters, plus all that hardware
that came against us, constitutes unreasonable search and seizure. This was
not a fictitious movie you watch on television, sitting in the comfort of
your living room, it was reality. Perhaps this nation has lost the ability to
differentiate between reality and fantasy, and appreciate the different
responses required of the two."

"We were ignored by a de facto government, who sees through its eyes only. A
government who refused to take our position of faith seriously, and by what
authority? They called us a cult, demonizing us, yet they knew us not. They
characterized David as some vile maniac. They became victims of their own

The Davidian Trial:

"(T)here were significant aspects of the legal practice which were highly
questionable. The prosecuting attorneys were involved with the raid planning,
yet they played a significant role in determining the indictments and in the
subsequent trial. The head of the Justice Department, Janet Reno, was also
involved with the attack. The D.A.'s office is ultimately responsible to the
Justice Department. Evidently, the government has the potential power to
arbitrarily decide who will be indicted and who will not. This state of
affairs enables it to cover its mistakes at the expense of the people."

"Judge Smith...made the comment that David was a false prophet. This was the
most alarming of all his comments. In his own mind he was evidently sitting
in judgment on our faith. Yet assuredly he does not have the slightest clue
of the subject matter of our beliefs, let alone their spirit. In making such
a comment he has shown that the government, through the justice system, now
decides what constitutes matters of the state and matters of Religion.
Further, what is true and false Religion? At no time did the judge declare
his criterion of judgment on both the above. As a matter of fact, he stated
he did not understand us. It would be implied from the nature of the trial
that any group professing to be religious, yet who thinks differently from
the government's accepted boundary of thinking, would be highly suspect as
false. Further, should such a group be willing to defend its thinking,
actively demonstrating this against attacks by the government, it would most
certainly be judged as false. So then harmony with the thinking allowed by
the government is what constitutes true religion. In taking it upon itself to
separate church from state, the government has made itself a god over both.
In principle, this is no different than what existed under Catholicism during
the Dark Ages, the result of which we look back in horror. All dissenting
voices from the government's determinations, will be silenced. We have come
full circle."

"In the face of all this, how can it be said that justice has been done? Why
should I be forced to address these blatant injustices in the judicial
process through an appeal? Could it be that what we have here is nothing but
another industry? There seems to be a clear vested interest in maintaining an
unjust judicial system. Between the courts and the prison system, a
tremendous amount of money is generated. Most certainly the attorneys are
happy about it."

Relevance of the Book of Revelations:

"The term Revelation denotes the unveiling of some truth by God to man. Such
revealed truths are distinguished from 'natural' religion, the content of
which being demonstrated by the process of reason. This is the pre-occupation
of theological seminaries. There are basically three theories, arising from
natural religion, offered as keys to understanding the book of Revelation.
After careful analysis of these theories, it will be determined that, none of
them have brought us any closer to understanding the meaning of the book of
Revelation. Thinking on this subject in the theological world is at best
speculative. For many the book of Revelation has been altogether abandoned,
being regarded as unimportant to our salvation. It's a case of 'just accept
Jesus, and forget about it.' There is no escaping the fact that, the book of
Revelation and our appreciation of salvation is indispensable. It is
comparative to that of God warning the antediluvians beforehand of His
intentions to destroy the earth with a flood. Those who took heed, became
conscious of the way of escape and lived, those who did not perished. Indeed,
the prophetic references of Christ' in texts such as Matthew 24, makes such
comparisons to the days of Noah. The issues of the Seven Seals relate, not to
the salvaging of our bodies, but much more importantly, the soul."

Spiritual Implications of the Waco Raid:

"The attack on Mt. Carmel, the deaths of its residents, has procured to this
nation a serious sin! The continued persecution of those of us still alive,
by this government in its effort to cover its sin, only worsens the guilt. We
are not dealing with man's inhumanity to man. This was a direct challenge to
the government of God. The residents of Mt. Carmel stood for truth. Our
position was a matter of conscientious obligation. It was this government's
persistent arrogance in refusing to listen that has placed it in its present
predicament. Its reluctance to acknowledge and confess this sin, will be the
final cause of this nation's downfall. Babylon has been snared and taken.
There is no escape, what has been done, has been done and cannot be made

"Being direct recipients of the knowledge of the Seals, when challenged to
surrender our position of faith, we were left with no alternative but to
defend ourselves. The government overstepped its mark in asking us to
surrender our souls to it. The fact that it may not have been aware of the
issues cannot be offered as an excuse. Ignorance no longer constitutes
innocence. In truth, the government's action was a late and last ditch effort
to hold on to power. The deaths of those who died at Mt. Carmel merely sealed
God's victory. Those of us who remain alive in faith, are an open show of
that victory. The kingdom of God, can now be made manifest in the earth, the
next event to shortly come to pass."

"Reference is made to a people that shall be exalted. Verses 28, 34, 39 bring
to view the covenant. In Isaiah 55:3, 4, one is introduced named David, who
brings the everlasting covenant. He's described as a leader and a commander
to the people (and boy did He lead!). In Ezekiel 20:23-28, they again show
up. So too is the process of their being brought under the rod, for the
purposes of bringing them into the bond of the covenant...You will recall
from "Mt. Carmel: The Unseen Reality," the issue of the judgment is not, in
the first instance, what the Seven Seals teaches, but rather who is worthy to
reveal it. We are in no doubts as to its contents and who revealed it. This
places us in the picture of the people referred to in the above texts.
Additionally our being able to testify to these things, is in itself a
witness to our being the ones spoken of. This is no mere coincidence."

"We were truly proved and exercised in matters spiritual, perfecting our
faith (spirit). Having reached a particular place in the bonding of the
covenant, we were allowed to be thrown back to the world. To see whether or
not, through what it threw at us, it could tear us from the covenant, our
Garden of Eden experience if you will. This became our ultimate test. The
threat of bullets, deception, torture, gassing, flames, imprisonment,
betrayal, shame, humiliation, ostracisation and time, we have withstood,
bearing witness to the bond of the covenant. There is a greater depth to
this, relative to the issues in the divine realm. But it makes little sense
elaborating further, if people cannot perceive what is thus far clearly

On the Media and Manufactured Perceptions:

"Through the electronic media, people's thought perceptions have become
artificially shaped and manipulated by the merchants of the earth for profit.
A person is programmed according to the information he receives. This
information forms the basis of his thinking and subsequent judgments. Through
the electronic media, radio and television etc., the government did a
brainwashing job on its people. By controlling and manipulating the
information people received regarding Mt. Carmel, the government sought to
maintain control over people's thinking and judgments. Further, by labeling
the residents at Mt. Carmel as brainwashed, along with all the other tactical
language it employed, the government was able to shield its own brainwashing
tactics on its people, from its people."

"To enter discussions into matters of detail regarding David's actions serves
little purpose. Without sounding paternalistic and arrogant, the response of
the Media and the public, clearly indicates a level of spiritual maturity
insufficient to appreciate the importance and significance of these

"The agents of the BATF and FBI, and the government they represented, lacked
the necessary qualifications to perceive these things. So too did the media.
Their history of perverting the meaning of reality, manipulating the minds of
the public, for purposes of economic and political ends, ill-equipped them to
discern the truth. For the most part, they didn't seem to care. The truth of
the meaning of the reality is not determined by the subjective imagination of
the human mind. Had these people the basic common decency to listen, they
would not have given themselves over to the forces of darkness. The cruelty
inflicted upon us, both by the government and the media (for which there's a
recompense) would not have occurred. We needn't have gone through this final
test. God was already satisfied with what we had thus far attained."

On Public Reaction to the Waco Tragedy:

"With regards to the truth of Mt. Camel, the government, by perpetrating such
a crime, demonstrated the depths of its moral degradation and corruption.
That section of the citizenry that willingly swallowed this deception also
demonstrated the state of its morality. There are those who want to cover
themselves in deception. They love the soul destroying sins they practice,
and desire to be left alone in these habits. Deception is a way of shielding
them from the painful light of truth, concerning what they do."

"While not everyone is required to go through our experience at Mt. Carmel,
everyone is required to give a response of approval or disapproval. Such
responses represents an indication of ones choice, either for or against,
God's salvation. Ultimately it will be seen that everyone consciously chose
their eternal destiny, be it desirable or undesirable. I believe it pays to
be properly informed of spiritual reality."

The New World Order:

"The plans of the UN government are unworkable. The scars we bear from the
shortcomings of the family, local and national governmental institutions,
remain as witnesses to the fact, that mankind cannot govern himself. To seek
to collectively govern billions of people can only end in disaster.
Evidently, the lessons of history along with present observations, continue
to be ignored."


The Price of Faith
Here I sit as another day
passes into nothingness.
Seven months ago I shared
pleasure and joy
in the company of my wife,
mother, son and daughter.
Now they are no more!

First they raided us
with their guns and helicopters.
When we did not surrender our faith,
They cut our fuel,
electricity, and water.
We did not surrender.

So they intimidated us.
Destruction of our
But we did not surrender.

So they gassed us.
When we did not surrender,
They burned our home,
killing us.
But we did not surrender.

Now, they continue in their lies,
demonizing us.
We are imprisoned as they seek
through their laws
to cover their cruel deeds.
Accusing us
of having faith.
But we are free,
And we will not surrender.

I am empty yet full.
I sorrow but I'm happy.
Momentarily my family and friends
are separated from me.
I'm a stranger from my relatives.
I have been here many days now,
facing two life sentences.
In secret my tears flow.
All for what?
My faith in the
Seven Seals of Scripture.

The price of faith is high.
But now I understand.
It can be no other way.
Father, for your sake,
Forget us not.
It is you who have placed
love for you
in us.

Now you have found us.
Please don't let us go.
Accept our feeble response
of gratitude.

Livingstone Fagan, Branch Davidian

17 PAGE PDF FILES -FROM THE FILES OF APFN: (May take a few minutes to load)

P.S. We also have a audio tape; during a Radio show with Ken Vardon and
Tom Valentine, a call in... stated he seen David Koresh climb in a tank and the
tank belined out of the area... this tank can be seen on video clips.
(Audio/Video clips will be put up on APFN's new server in the near future.)
Livingstone Fagan


"Report: Clinton, Reno deceived public about Waco tragedy"

WHY_WACO I (under construction)

Inside Mount Carmel



Why Waco?

More on Waco

Hillary Directed Waco

WACO: Gunshot Evidence

Sarah Bain's Letter to District Court Judge Walter S. Smith, Jr.


General Wesley Clark

The US military was at Waco

Former Waco Prosecutor Indicted


Excerpts from Mt. Carmel, the Unseen Reality


Mount Carmel A Day of Information

WACO ~ One of the Biggest "Federal Lies" of All Time

Waco Trial Update 06/25/00

WACO TRIAL 07/14/2000


Who Waco?

Who Waco! Probe Clinton's Ties To Riady to Rapoport to Why Waco!

FBI didn't plan to fight Waco fire

The Aftermath of Koresh's Waco

WACO: Files from APFN


Now the real Waco tragedy begins

Bring The Waco Murders To Justice! CLASS ACTION SUIT




Who Waco! Probe Clinton's Ties To Riady to Rapoport to Why Waco!

APFN Talks to the Enemy

Bring The Waco Murders To Justice! CLASS ACTION SUIT
Hillary Directed Waco
FBI Special Agent (SA) R. Wayne Smith Waco Report

There is NO Statutes of Limitations on the Crimes of Genocide!

The elites had to have the Branch Davidian Village eliminated because:

Subscribe to apfn-1

chooser.gif (706373 bytes)

Powered by groups.yahoo.com

American Patriot Friends Network

"...a network of net workers..."

Without Justice, there is JUST_US!

APFN Message Board

APFN Sitemap

APFN Contents Page

APFN Home Page

patriot.bmp (4478 bytes)

E-Mail: APFN@apfn.org

Hit Counter

Last updated 04/28/2010